Jeremy Carl, a Fellow at the Claremont Institute whom I have met and corresponded with, and who wrote an influential book on anti-white discrimination in America, has been running the gauntlet of Senate confirmation hearings for a top post at the State Department.
"society to treat all groups’ culture and identity equally"?? Even if a group's culture includes things like honor killings, FGM, etc.? No, I do not and will not treat that group's culture "equally" with cultures that treat women with respect as human beings.
This is directionally correct but too euphemised. You don't discriminate against abstractions. You always discriminate against a person or a people. In this case, White people.
Identity is only secondarily "about myths, memories, and attachments to symbols and places". It's first and foremost about attachment to a people, to your ancestors, and to your descendants. There is no culture without a people. There is no White culture without White people. And no, that does not include North Africans or Syrians.
Jeremy Carl couldn't speak his mind openly, either due to his position in the administration, or due to subjective reasons. We know what he thinks privately. The questions he got asked do have perfectly direct, clear, and true answers. Answers that would make coddled minds of Cory Booker & co. gasp for air.
We're still playing the game of the Emperor's New Clothes, but we're inching closer by the day.
“And no, that does not include North Africans or Syrians.”
What a bullshit comment. Am I really supposed to believe that a dark-haired, olive-skinned, long-nosed Orthodox Christian person from Greece automatically has less in common with a dark-haired, olive-skinned, long-nosed Orthodox Christian person from Syria or Lebanon than they have with a blonde-haired, pale-skinned, small-nosed Scandinavian who is culturally Protestant? My grandfather was Levantine Arab and he was mistaken for a local in Greece—do you think that would’ve happened if he’d been from Denmark or Norway instead?
Why is it important to you that a thing labeled “white culture” exists? What’s wrong with European or various European sub-cultures?
What mentally is important about whites thinking of themselves as a unitary group, to you?
IMO, this sort of thinking directly plays into identity politics, and identity politics is just generally bad for society, regardless of who is doing it. I don’t want to go through life thinking about my “whiteness” or how I supposedly have something in common with every other white person, and have some sort of collective obligations or guilts as a result of that. That’s the sort of thing that leads to people collectively blaming all white people for slavery. If I’m somehow connected to all other white people, then I’m connected to slavery, even though all my ancestors immigrated to North America decades after slavery was abolished.
Personally, I feel more connected to my Irish heritage than “white” culture, whatever that means. I don’t feel that “whiteness” is my culture, or even that it is a culture. I have no interest in identifying with every other white person in America in some broad sense. They’re not “my tribe” and I don’t think it’s a good idea to encourage people to feel that their racial category is legitimately an entity they should identify with or feel an obligation towards. I think we’re all better off thinking of ourselves as individuals.
Part of this depends on whether you are in the US or Europe. My point is that 'white' is the more relevant category in the US for all the reasons I noted (ie melting of European groups, non-European accretions to white culture). I'm very clear that no cultural product is indelibly part of a group, but that some groups originated certain practices and are more attached to them than others. I don't seek racial fixation though it's human nature to seek moderate identity at several levels. The bigger point is about parity of treatment.
I think parity of treatment is more likely to be achieved by *not* conceptualizing our identity in terms of racial groupings. We should actually be working towards regarding people as individuals. To get there we should be differentiating all broad racial categories into infinitely diverse subgroups. I.e. Blacks should be thoughts of as not one monolithic group but African Blacks, Carribean blacks, American Blacks, Mullato/French Creole. Hispanics should be broken down into Mexican, Central American, Venezuelan/Columbian, Brazillian, etc. They're all different. Asians aren't all the same. Chinese and Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese. Grouping people into large white/Black/Hispanic/Asian subdivisions encourages identity politics because you can actually do politics when there are a relatively small number of competing factions. If there are infinitely diverse divisions then people revert to regarding people as individuals.
Notice how much you wrote about the many sub groups of non-whites and nothing about whites. Are white Americans supposed to just embrace this mutt culture of everything and nothing that they feel no attachment to? Or I suppose they could just be hyper individualistic but what sort of nation would that make? It's naive to think humans will ever forgo tribalism in favor of autonomy en masse. If that's the answer we will never find peace.
I already mentioned my Irish heritage. Most whites actually identify most with the ethnic background of their ancestors. I know plenty of people who identify as Italian, or Greek, or Irish-German, Polish, Russian, etc.etc. Some might identify as "American". I know few people who think of "white" as an ethnic identity, and the only ones who do are flaming racists. The sole purpose of constructing a concept of "white culture" appears to be to construct an identity group for political purposes. So that "whites" can do coalition politics against other racial identity groups.
As a mixed-ethnic, ambiguously-white metalhead myself, I think it’s kinda funny that you list metal music as a part of “white” culture when visibly nonwhite and/or mixed-race Hispanics make up a HUGE proportion of metalheads. And that’s not even getting into the increasing popularity of that kind of music around the world in general. Keeping heavy metal “white” has always been a laughably pointless endeavor no matter how many people say they want to do that.
And why should you? The Irish have historically been oppressed by other “white people”—the same ones who decided that “white” is a legitimate identity to begin with.
Majority groups in various democracies claiming to be persecuted and whining about it seems to be an emergent feature of the internet. The only universal culture it seems is victimhood culture. Pathetic stuff!
Rather than have a white academic moaning on about the marginalisation of white culture, it would be interesting to hear from a non-white person on their their perception of white culture.
To my eye - and I’m white - I’d identify Classical music as predominantly white in terms of composers and audience.
Going to art galleries around the world, the art on their walls are by predominantly white anrtists, even if some- like Picasso - drew on African art as inspiration.
In the culinary world, French, Italian and Spanish cuisine are global, as is British in the form of Sunday roasts and English breakfasts.
How about philosophy? The Renaissance was predominantly white with Enlightened philosophers spearheading a global change in social values.
Religion? Christianity is predominantly white in terms of leadership - no white popes - and imagery: white Jesus.
Really, the idea that white culture is under threat is under-appreciated or under threat is utterly risible. A white conspiracy theory, surely.
Of course your viewpoint on the article may have some very valid arguments - but not as the result of of the authors ethnicity, as the first sentence in your response would imply. And of course, same goes for if the author was 100% Anglo/"white".
I've actually heard of affirmative measures for rural white men in the UK, in fact. I'm a fan of Bad Bunny, but playing an all-Spanish set is a sign of antagonism against the white working class who is already having financial struggles.
I also think that Christianity, on some level, is becoming an oppressed culture in the US and needs to adopt the same protective measures that Judaism has. It's not being oppressed by Hindus or Muslims, but by secular culture.
As a minority pagan woman, I can see these patterns more clearly because I stand outside of them.
"We find an analogous asymmetry for the nonsensical notion of ‘cultural appropriation.’ White artists must ‘stay in their lane’ and avoid borrowing cultural practices from black, Asian or Hispanic cultures while nonwhites are under no compunction to do likewise."
This is a point that seems to ignore the obvious fact that the vast majority of black artists "stay in their lane" --- that is, make music associated with their ethnic group. It's a hard task to find a mainstream black artist today who doesn't make predominantly rap or r&b inspired music. Whereas with white artists, we do of course see a massive variety of genres, including rap and r&b, and who have been largely free to make what ever music they please.
If there is such a pressure, it seems to be both a very recent phenomenon and not an especially strong force at all, applied mostly retrospectively and doing little to shape the actions of future artists, compared to what ever the pressures are on black artists to make only "black music".
In a world where this was true, we would expect to see few, if any, white rappers, and none that have achieved a massive mainstream success. Artists like eminem, mac miller, post malone, the beastie boys, macklemore, twenty one pilots, etc, all seem like major exceptions (there is quite a long list beyond this). Whereas I would struggle to find a single example of a popular contemporary black artist who does not make a genre considered "black music".
With 1960s rights legislation continuing to be the primary influence on US society the discrimination is part of the handicap race that whites are required to compete in.
One of the named individuals rejecting the concept of white culture-Atlantic journalist Thomas Chatterton Williams is mixed race and has children with a white French woman. He was interviewed by "reactionary feminist" Louise Perry and both were in agreement on the concept of the "woke right"and a "post racial" society.
I echo your point about the pressure to “diversify.” My recent White Rose Magazine essay—a 30-year NYC theater insider's account—documents job postings requiring “anti-capitalist principles,” equity-based “reforms” to NYC DCLA, and professional blacklisting after refusal to comply with CSJ activism: https://whiterosemagazine.com/the-inflating-cost-of-artistic-freedom/
To be honest, I'm not a fan of either Bon Jovi, or REM, but if we're talking modern pop music made by white people, of course there's a lot that I like (and, a lot I like by non-white people too). Strictly speaking re pop music made by white people, I'd probably nominate The Beatles as one of my all time favorites - in terms of pure pop music innovation I can't think of many others that have come close & had such a major influence on the culture, and everything that came after.
"society to treat all groups’ culture and identity equally"?? Even if a group's culture includes things like honor killings, FGM, etc.? No, I do not and will not treat that group's culture "equally" with cultures that treat women with respect as human beings.
This is directionally correct but too euphemised. You don't discriminate against abstractions. You always discriminate against a person or a people. In this case, White people.
Identity is only secondarily "about myths, memories, and attachments to symbols and places". It's first and foremost about attachment to a people, to your ancestors, and to your descendants. There is no culture without a people. There is no White culture without White people. And no, that does not include North Africans or Syrians.
Jeremy Carl couldn't speak his mind openly, either due to his position in the administration, or due to subjective reasons. We know what he thinks privately. The questions he got asked do have perfectly direct, clear, and true answers. Answers that would make coddled minds of Cory Booker & co. gasp for air.
We're still playing the game of the Emperor's New Clothes, but we're inching closer by the day.
“And no, that does not include North Africans or Syrians.”
What a bullshit comment. Am I really supposed to believe that a dark-haired, olive-skinned, long-nosed Orthodox Christian person from Greece automatically has less in common with a dark-haired, olive-skinned, long-nosed Orthodox Christian person from Syria or Lebanon than they have with a blonde-haired, pale-skinned, small-nosed Scandinavian who is culturally Protestant? My grandfather was Levantine Arab and he was mistaken for a local in Greece—do you think that would’ve happened if he’d been from Denmark or Norway instead?
Why is it important to you that a thing labeled “white culture” exists? What’s wrong with European or various European sub-cultures?
What mentally is important about whites thinking of themselves as a unitary group, to you?
IMO, this sort of thinking directly plays into identity politics, and identity politics is just generally bad for society, regardless of who is doing it. I don’t want to go through life thinking about my “whiteness” or how I supposedly have something in common with every other white person, and have some sort of collective obligations or guilts as a result of that. That’s the sort of thing that leads to people collectively blaming all white people for slavery. If I’m somehow connected to all other white people, then I’m connected to slavery, even though all my ancestors immigrated to North America decades after slavery was abolished.
Personally, I feel more connected to my Irish heritage than “white” culture, whatever that means. I don’t feel that “whiteness” is my culture, or even that it is a culture. I have no interest in identifying with every other white person in America in some broad sense. They’re not “my tribe” and I don’t think it’s a good idea to encourage people to feel that their racial category is legitimately an entity they should identify with or feel an obligation towards. I think we’re all better off thinking of ourselves as individuals.
Part of this depends on whether you are in the US or Europe. My point is that 'white' is the more relevant category in the US for all the reasons I noted (ie melting of European groups, non-European accretions to white culture). I'm very clear that no cultural product is indelibly part of a group, but that some groups originated certain practices and are more attached to them than others. I don't seek racial fixation though it's human nature to seek moderate identity at several levels. The bigger point is about parity of treatment.
I think parity of treatment is more likely to be achieved by *not* conceptualizing our identity in terms of racial groupings. We should actually be working towards regarding people as individuals. To get there we should be differentiating all broad racial categories into infinitely diverse subgroups. I.e. Blacks should be thoughts of as not one monolithic group but African Blacks, Carribean blacks, American Blacks, Mullato/French Creole. Hispanics should be broken down into Mexican, Central American, Venezuelan/Columbian, Brazillian, etc. They're all different. Asians aren't all the same. Chinese and Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese. Grouping people into large white/Black/Hispanic/Asian subdivisions encourages identity politics because you can actually do politics when there are a relatively small number of competing factions. If there are infinitely diverse divisions then people revert to regarding people as individuals.
Notice how much you wrote about the many sub groups of non-whites and nothing about whites. Are white Americans supposed to just embrace this mutt culture of everything and nothing that they feel no attachment to? Or I suppose they could just be hyper individualistic but what sort of nation would that make? It's naive to think humans will ever forgo tribalism in favor of autonomy en masse. If that's the answer we will never find peace.
I already mentioned my Irish heritage. Most whites actually identify most with the ethnic background of their ancestors. I know plenty of people who identify as Italian, or Greek, or Irish-German, Polish, Russian, etc.etc. Some might identify as "American". I know few people who think of "white" as an ethnic identity, and the only ones who do are flaming racists. The sole purpose of constructing a concept of "white culture" appears to be to construct an identity group for political purposes. So that "whites" can do coalition politics against other racial identity groups.
People who say they hybrid cultures can’t exist are blind to basically all of human history.
As a mixed-ethnic, ambiguously-white metalhead myself, I think it’s kinda funny that you list metal music as a part of “white” culture when visibly nonwhite and/or mixed-race Hispanics make up a HUGE proportion of metalheads. And that’s not even getting into the increasing popularity of that kind of music around the world in general. Keeping heavy metal “white” has always been a laughably pointless endeavor no matter how many people say they want to do that.
And why should you? The Irish have historically been oppressed by other “white people”—the same ones who decided that “white” is a legitimate identity to begin with.
Majority groups in various democracies claiming to be persecuted and whining about it seems to be an emergent feature of the internet. The only universal culture it seems is victimhood culture. Pathetic stuff!
Amen. And I will admit to having victimhood fatigue even when I acknowledge people’s grievances to be valid more often than not.
Rather than have a white academic moaning on about the marginalisation of white culture, it would be interesting to hear from a non-white person on their their perception of white culture.
To my eye - and I’m white - I’d identify Classical music as predominantly white in terms of composers and audience.
Going to art galleries around the world, the art on their walls are by predominantly white anrtists, even if some- like Picasso - drew on African art as inspiration.
In the culinary world, French, Italian and Spanish cuisine are global, as is British in the form of Sunday roasts and English breakfasts.
How about philosophy? The Renaissance was predominantly white with Enlightened philosophers spearheading a global change in social values.
Religion? Christianity is predominantly white in terms of leadership - no white popes - and imagery: white Jesus.
Really, the idea that white culture is under threat is under-appreciated or under threat is utterly risible. A white conspiracy theory, surely.
Just a note that the author of the article is part Chinese/Jewish/South American, so hardly a typical white man.
Fair comment, thank you. His viewpoint, however, remains myopic.
Of course your viewpoint on the article may have some very valid arguments - but not as the result of of the authors ethnicity, as the first sentence in your response would imply. And of course, same goes for if the author was 100% Anglo/"white".
The Enemy Within
I've actually heard of affirmative measures for rural white men in the UK, in fact. I'm a fan of Bad Bunny, but playing an all-Spanish set is a sign of antagonism against the white working class who is already having financial struggles.
I also think that Christianity, on some level, is becoming an oppressed culture in the US and needs to adopt the same protective measures that Judaism has. It's not being oppressed by Hindus or Muslims, but by secular culture.
As a minority pagan woman, I can see these patterns more clearly because I stand outside of them.
And the award for “Most Obviously Astroturfed Comment” in this comments section goes to…
"Progressive or liberal commentators such as Woodhouse or [John] Podhoretz"
Anyone who knows anything about Podhoretz (a conservative) is laughing, and deciding they can stop reading the essay right there.
lol
This has gone on since jimmy carter.
"We find an analogous asymmetry for the nonsensical notion of ‘cultural appropriation.’ White artists must ‘stay in their lane’ and avoid borrowing cultural practices from black, Asian or Hispanic cultures while nonwhites are under no compunction to do likewise."
This is a point that seems to ignore the obvious fact that the vast majority of black artists "stay in their lane" --- that is, make music associated with their ethnic group. It's a hard task to find a mainstream black artist today who doesn't make predominantly rap or r&b inspired music. Whereas with white artists, we do of course see a massive variety of genres, including rap and r&b, and who have been largely free to make what ever music they please.
If there is such a pressure, it seems to be both a very recent phenomenon and not an especially strong force at all, applied mostly retrospectively and doing little to shape the actions of future artists, compared to what ever the pressures are on black artists to make only "black music".
In a world where this was true, we would expect to see few, if any, white rappers, and none that have achieved a massive mainstream success. Artists like eminem, mac miller, post malone, the beastie boys, macklemore, twenty one pilots, etc, all seem like major exceptions (there is quite a long list beyond this). Whereas I would struggle to find a single example of a popular contemporary black artist who does not make a genre considered "black music".
With 1960s rights legislation continuing to be the primary influence on US society the discrimination is part of the handicap race that whites are required to compete in.
One of the named individuals rejecting the concept of white culture-Atlantic journalist Thomas Chatterton Williams is mixed race and has children with a white French woman. He was interviewed by "reactionary feminist" Louise Perry and both were in agreement on the concept of the "woke right"and a "post racial" society.
I echo your point about the pressure to “diversify.” My recent White Rose Magazine essay—a 30-year NYC theater insider's account—documents job postings requiring “anti-capitalist principles,” equity-based “reforms” to NYC DCLA, and professional blacklisting after refusal to comply with CSJ activism: https://whiterosemagazine.com/the-inflating-cost-of-artistic-freedom/
What a laughable claim. All I hear from American liberals these days is how Trump is trampling on the Constitution. It’s not 2021 anymore.
Trump is trampling on the Constitution Daily! Feds are not supposed to occupy the States. Thugs are killing and terrorizing human beings.
Hmmmmm. Interesting. But, um, I don't think so.
Hmmm. Nope again. LOL!
To be honest, I'm not a fan of either Bon Jovi, or REM, but if we're talking modern pop music made by white people, of course there's a lot that I like (and, a lot I like by non-white people too). Strictly speaking re pop music made by white people, I'd probably nominate The Beatles as one of my all time favorites - in terms of pure pop music innovation I can't think of many others that have come close & had such a major influence on the culture, and everything that came after.